We might have gone meta–this week on the podcast, Colin is joined by none-other than Tamper Tantrum’s Wilson, Jenn Rugolo. Podcast No. 37 features fond reminiscence of the early days at 3FE and Tamper Tantrum, how we misuse numbers, the importance of play in learning, and an extended meditation on the supposed fourth wave and how it might appear.

Also covered: how much we love Peter G, when arguments on the internet are only about winning, Colin’s inability to remember things, the need for a service-led design in coffee qualifications, and the difference in the ways we show empathy and compassion behind bar.